Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

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Nick Johnston
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Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#1 Post by Nick Johnston » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:50 pm

Hey there, folks, just a quick clarification of the correct procedures for controlling aircraft in VATNZ airspace with the new platform.

https://www.vatnz.net/vatnz/news/contro ... -coverage/


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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#2 Post by Mark Richards » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:36 pm

Quick question as I am getting differing opinions, and experiences.

NZAA_CTR is extending. Normally callsign is Auckland Control. What callsign when an aircraft is in NZCH-x_CTR's or NZOH_CTR area? Christchurch/Ohakea/Auckland Control?

Same question for NZCH-x_CTR extending into NZAA or NZOH area?

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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#3 Post by Oliver Holmwood » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:34 pm

Hi Mark,

I'd say traffic going from NZAA_CTR who is extending to NZCH-T_CTR would go from Auckland Control to Christchurch Control.

My two cents,

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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#4 Post by Mark Richards » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:48 pm

Oliver Holmwood wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:34 pm
Hi Mark,

I'd say traffic going from NZAA_CTR who is extending to NZCH-T_CTR would go from Auckland Control to Christchurch Control.

My two cents,

Ollie
Thanks, that is what I thought too but some are using Auckland/Christchurch for the whole country.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#5 Post by Andrew Moseley » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:06 am

One of those strange things we don't experience in real life :D

To keep things simple I think it would be a good idea to use the callsign of your primary frequency. Thoughts?
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#6 Post by Mark Richards » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:02 pm

It does get confusing when you say "Contact Auckland Control on ...." and then the same voice answers them so I think using the same callsign would be best.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#7 Post by Dick Tucker » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:19 am

1. I love AFV and I thought the point was to get the pilots to change to appropriate frequencies during their flight. I had no problem during Worldflight when a couple of controllers passed me off to another freq and they answered. Perhaps the controller could say "Contact me on CHCH Control 123.7" or NZAA_TWR says "Contact me on NZAA_GND 121.9" , etc. ?

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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#8 Post by Damien Corbett » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:47 am

I have no problem in controllers using callsigns that relate to the frequencies in use it just comes with practice.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#9 Post by Zain Khan » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:40 pm

This is a very good point of discussion giving many ENR hours I have on my belt. A problem I have only with this is where on vPilot etc pilots would tune the wrong frequencies for the parts of my extended coverage, Say I'm on NZAA on 123.9 and some bloke in NZQN wants to contact me, he tries using 123.9 but he would have to tune 129.3 to be inside VHF radio coverage, yet 129.3 doesn't show up in their pilot clients.

This was the case a couple of weeks, or a few months ago, rather soon after the release of AFV, a pilot was telling me "But 129.3 doesn't show up in my pilot client? Yet only 123.9 does?". On the other side of the scope when I'm airborne as a pilot I can concur to that but thanks to ATC experience I remember all the frequencies and callsigns off the top of my head and at least know what frequency to use for the area I am in :)

Back to the point of callsigns, I'd normally use the callsigns of the respective sectors that frequency belongs. Like 119.5, I'd use Bay Approach for that, 126.2 Ohakea etc. I think the right use of handing an aircraft to one of your other frequencies is the phrase "CONTACT ME ON <frequency>" instead of using the callsign since pilots will know for sure from your voice that they will stay with you. Both in VATNZ and VATPAC airspace when I control in either one, as long as it all makes sense it's good.

It's like you're in a radar centre and you tell an aircraft to contact you on another sector and you have to physically move yourself to that station from your station using your office chair. Common with Airways when a couple of sectors go off in their radar centre in Christchurch, and soon that new radar centre in Auckland.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#10 Post by Dick Tucker » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:10 pm

Hi Zain, neither examples you have given can work with AFV. Please read this: https://vatsim-afv.s3.amazonaws.com/AFV ... 0Guide.pdf
The pilot can only see on his Audio Control Panel (XPilot, Xsquawkbox, VPilot, etc) ATC that is in range. Even if you were using CHCH_S_CTR he may not be able to hear you until he gets enough altitude after takeoff.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#11 Post by Mark Richards » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:23 pm

Dick Tucker wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:10 pm
The pilot can only see on his Audio Control Panel (XPilot, Xsquawkbox, VPilot, etc) ATC that is in range. Even if you were using CHCH_S_CTR he may not be able to hear you until he gets enough altitude after takeoff.
cheers,
Dick T
Unless he/she looks at the Airspace Page and uses the local frequency as CTR controllers providing extended coverage are cross coupling the frequencies so that they have full radio contact.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#12 Post by Zain Khan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:57 pm

Dick Tucker wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:10 pm
Hi Zain, neither examples you have given can work with AFV. Please read this: https://vatsim-afv.s3.amazonaws.com/AFV ... 0Guide.pdf
The pilot can only see on his Audio Control Panel (XPilot, Xsquawkbox, VPilot, etc) ATC that is in range. Even if you were using CHCH_S_CTR he may not be able to hear you until he gets enough altitude after takeoff.
cheers,
Dick T
I'm sorry to say this but you're not getting my point. My point was pilots cannot see the CORRECT FREQUENCY, not the CONTROLLERS. The CONTROLLERS are always visible depending on vis ranges and radio ranges but the frequencies that show up only map to the primary frequency that the sector is providing.

So I'm on NZAA_CTR, the pilots will only see 123.9 in their audio control panel and NOT THE OTHER FREQUENCIES THAT I AM CROSS COUPLING THAT ARE IN RANGE FOR THESE PILOTS. Much to the less help that pilots would get.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#13 Post by Dick Tucker » Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:07 pm

Gotcha, does the controller set a .viz point for each enroute transceiver they are using?
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#14 Post by Zain Khan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:14 pm

Dick Tucker wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:07 pm
Gotcha, does the controller set a .viz point for each enroute transceiver they are using?
cheers,
Unfortunately that's not the case. The vis points in EuroScope are irrespective of transceivers on AFV and are only used to make yourself visible to other aircraft really and for you to see other aircraft on your scope. The AFV transceivers only act as voice stations and only the controller's primary frequency is visible and the cross coupled frequency will not show up in pilot clients.
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Re: Use of multiple frequencies within VATNZ Airspace is for Extending Enroute Controllers Only

#15 Post by Brodie Murdoch » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:00 am

Hi All.

Just to clarify a few things.

Vis Points - Think of it as visibility like the metar. Only shows the aircraft on the radar screens. Has nothing to do with AFV or hearing aircraft
Transceivers - is the fundamentals of communication between a/c and controllers.

Zain is correct about the controllers primary frequency only visible. Until Pseudo gets released Vpilot wont see cross-coupled positions and its frequencies until Pseudo comes into effect. Currently AFV has no time frame for the release has it cause problems prior to release. But its coming within the near future. Similar aspects apply to 3rd part sources such as VAT-SPY and other mapping data of VATSIM Online Activity. Because the 3rd party developers are some what independent from VATSIM itself. Its up to them whether to display pseudo position for themselves. Also has an effect on viewing controller information as well as it relied on using a voice server. So unless connected to Pilot or Controller software such as VPILOT Euroscope you cannot view the controller information. Im i guess what im saying is that theres nothing much the controller can do apart from telling the pilot to contact you on this frequency when necessary. Pilot would have to click on the controllers information in the pilot software to see what frequency to contact but can be challenging if the pilot is unfamiliar to the airspace.

In terms of the question what callsign to use when extending. My personal opinion is that we should maintain the callsign of the position that belongs to the allocated callsign. Simply because if your primary sector is NZAA_CTR (Auckland Control) and your extending all NZ Sectors with cross-coupling. If another controller connects as NZCH-T_CTR and your using your primary callsign as Auckland Control then its gonna cause confusing as the controller who pop on to NZCH-T_CTR isnt gonna use Auckland Control as the position is Christchurch Control.

Kind Regards
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